Mayo Clinic is a unique place: the culture, the values, the people. "Mayo Clinic Employee Experiences" explores the experiences of Mayo Clinic staff as they navigate life personally and professionally. Sharing these experiences increases understanding of others and ultimately contributes to finding connections, belonging and inclusion at work. 

In this episode of "Mayo Clinic Employee Experiences," you will hear from Crystal Buchak (they, them, theirs), a desk operations specialist, and Adam Schroeder (he, him, his), a nurse, as they discuss the importance of supporting one another by using the correct pronouns. Buchak identifies as gender-queer, which is commonly defined as a person whose gender identity cannot be solely described as male or female. Schroeder is a bisexual male, and notes that he is an ally for colleagues, no matter how they identify.

Pronouns are used to help people talk about themselves and others, and are specific to a person's gender identity. Some people might not identify as either male or female but rather somewhere along the gender spectrum. In these circumstances, people may use gender-neutral pronouns such as "they" or "them."

Listen as Schroeder and Buchak share their experiences: 

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Read the transcript, edited for length and clarity:

BUCHAK: My pronouns are they, them, their. I'm a pansexual gender-queer. I prefer the term gender-queer, but also gender-nonbinary individual.

NARRATOR: In this episode, Crystal (they, them, theirs), a desk operations specialist, shares their perspective of using pronouns in the workplace. Adam (he, him, his), a nurse, is an ally to his colleagues in normalizing the use of pronouns.

BUCHAK: I'm married to a wonderful wife. I came out as gender-queer in the beginning of 2018, but only to my wife and a couple of friends. It was very scary.

I still didn't want to come out ever at work. I had been doing great. I didn't want to ruin that sense of belonging that I was getting.

We had a training class. Anyone who worked with Endocrinology would take a transgender intersex cultural awareness course. They were going to start incorporating that clinic from Rochester that they have over here to Arizona.

When we were in that class, my co-workers were so open to learning. Every time there was something that someone didn't understand, they'd ask questions. And they constantly made sure to say: "I don't mean any disrespect. If this is disrespectful, please let me know," or "Can you clarify this?" It was inspiring, and little by little, I started to come out more at work. I started to correct people every so often, "Actually my pronouns are they, them." I was tired of constantly having to come out every time someone said, "What's up, girl" and me say: "I really don't like that. It's Crystal or they, them."

SCHROEDER: I represent the B in the LGBTQ spectrum. My pronouns are he, him, his. I've had, I guess, the luxury of being masculine. It's never been a question from other people if my pronouns are anything different. I am a married man. I had the luxury of marrying my partner of several years. A lot of people in the general public assume that if you're a member of the gay community, you're in tune with everything from gay to transgender to intersex, etc. And that's not the case at all.

I was going to college for nursing. One of the faculty members was introducing this transgender toolkit to the college, which was basically trying to implement single-stall bathrooms as gender-neutral. It was unfortunate that there was some backlash to simply trying to get gender-neutral bathrooms passed.

The use of pronouns was just one of those very simple things that people could do that shows a lot of respect and shows that you've had at least made a conscious effort to think about your pronouns and how you treat other people, instead of just taking it for granted.

BUCHAK: One would go as far to say it's suicide prevention because it can be for some folks. That's the sad reality of our lives.

SCHROEDER: I'm hoping that through the wearing of these pins that people are able to see them as a beacon of understanding. I'm trying to connect with you on a level at least, you know, so that you feel more comfortable. We can build some rapport and spark conversation, and that's exactly what we should be doing. And even with these pins, when the announcement came out, I remember at least one person saying, "I don't really see what the big deal is."

BUCHAK: I feel like it's not that people don't care. It's just that they don't understand it because they've never had to experience that. I've had people purposely say, "No, it belongs to her."

Respect can go so far, especially in a world where respect isn't really common anymore, unfortunately, for anyone who's different, anyone who's other than. There are a lot of people out there who aren't finding that commonality. There's a lot of disdain toward the unknown. I am very hopeful, though, that going forth, we're going to have more people wanting to learn, wanting to understand. I've been very blessed throughout my life in coming out as a queer child to my parents. My family has been accepting.

SCHROEDER: I think part of that is, it takes effort to try to see it from the other person's perspective. It's just easier not doing that. Putting forth the effort to understand them from their perspective, sometimes that takes an olive branch. Sometimes it takes reaching across the aisle. Again, I think there's the effort that's needed. And not everybody has the ability or the desire to provide that effort.

BUCHAK: Prior to starting at Mayo Clinic, I didn't know the terminologies. I was going through a patch of self-discovery with my gender identity.

During that time, I met a lot of different people. We'd have conversations discussing this feeling of, "I'm not transgender, but I'm not a woman or a man."

A few years ago, I started to learn more about different gender identities within the trans umbrella. A good friend of mine had a conversation with me. We were talking about people in history, how we've always existed and no one's had a term for this. There is another option. I prefer the term "gender-queer," but that's just me.

Coming out wasn't exactly fun. People didn't like people like me. I was assaulted in 2012 by a couple of individuals. It didn't go very well. I ended up being pretty much OK with just a few bruises, but not mentally.

SCHROEDER: I wish more people would try to understand where people are coming from. When someone's going through a transition and they come out as, let's say the opposite gender, it is a change to who they used to be. Now they are who they were always meant to be. I think it really should be more of a celebration of who the person is becoming, like a butterfly. They've come out of their cocoon. They're not afraid to show who they actually are supposed to be.

BUCHAK: It's one of the most beautiful things to witness. I changed my signature, and I still remember the first email reply after I did that where I was addressed as "they." There are no words to describe how great that felt. I felt seen. I felt respected. And in a world that was so scary at the time, it was wonderful.

A little bit later, we had the announcement about the buttons. I had just had that email happen, so I made the response, "You have no idea what this means to me."

Other people reply, and they have their pronouns. They're not even nonbinary. They identify with something on that binary spectrum of she/her, he/him. It's less scary now because I know my co-workers have my back.

Now we have more celebrities who are coming out. People now have role models. And they now have representation, and people realize how much that representation matters when you've never had it.

SCHROEDER: For me, when I was coming out, it was in high school. I finally got up the nerve to do it. It felt like tons of bricks were lifted off my shoulders. What I failed to realize is that the next day of class, there were going to be a whole bunch of questions. People were going to want to know more about it.

I ended up caving and giving in, and going back into the closet, because I couldn't take it all at that time. It took me an additional 15–17 years before I actually put my foot down and had the gumption to actually come out. I was a late bloomer.

BUCHAK: It's scary. It's a lot of pressure. That's the sad truth for a lot of people within the queer spectrum, as I like to call it. We miss out on a lot of opportunities growing up that other people get to experience because we have to hide who we are.

While we're the same person, we're not genuine to ourselves. We're not genuine to the other person.

Refer to me as a person. I'm not the parts between my legs. I'm sorry if that's a little on the forward, but that's been a part that's always bothered me. When it comes down to it, people are overly obsessing about things they should not be. I'm Crystal. I'm still me.

SCHROEDER: Do you have any advice for others who may be nervous or scared to share their whole self with their colleagues at work?

BUCHAK: Make sure that you feel safe with the people who are around you. Just for your own anxiety because anxiety is horrible.

I highly believe in self-care. Know that your colleagues have your back, and you're not alone. You'll at least have my support. We have a MERG (Mayo Employee Resource Group). Definitely reach out to the MERG groups. They're phenomenal. There's an OUTlist.

SCHROEDER: I believe it shows your department name and other people, maybe in your own department, who are part of the spectrum, as well. I added my name to the list.

I think Mayo Clinic has been very supportive. It does get better. When I was first coming out to co-workers, as long as I was straightforward with them, I had a much better reaction.

BUCHAK: I find the same thing with this. My co-workers — as long as I'm just honest — they're fine. They're awesome people. I love it here. I absolutely do.

The patients I get to interact with are all phenomenal. You get to inspire them every day.

I don't know about your area. I'd have a few patients who come through every so often. They have their follow-ups, and they are nonbinary. They're ecstatic about the pins. To see how happy that made them was great. I love that.

Never have I worked for a company that's as open as Mayo, as accepting as Mayo.

SCHROEDER: I do think that it can be hard to find support. In a sea of people who you don't know, hopefully these pins will be an identifier for those who may need some support.

At Mayo Clinic, we are one team, ultimately. We come from different departments. We have different-colored uniforms. We have different titles. But in the end, we are all here to enhance the outcome of our patients.

We have a role in promoting and inspiring others to be better versions of ourselves and themselves. It means the world that Mayo is taking the step to include the use of pronouns. This is a great organization to lead change. It's one of many steps that Mayo Clinic could take to enhance inclusiveness. It's certainly a step in the right direction.

BUCHAK: It's OK to make an error. Apologize and move on. Please don't make it a bigger deal than it needs to be. Say the correct thing, move forward.

Be open to learning because no one knows all. Just remember one person's experience is not the same as another's. My experiences and my preferences as a gender-queer individual are not the same as somebody else who also is.

We are not required to educate you, but some of us are willing to. Also, as you mentioned, always state your pronouns when you meet people, "Hi, I'm Crystal they/them." Even if you go by something on the binary.

Again, doing things like normalizing that makes us feel safe. It also stops the stigma around "This is so new and strange." It's not that new if you look into it. We've always been here.

Just be respectful, and you'll be doing great. If you do notice someone else continuously being disrespectful, please say something. Don't just watch someone get misgendered, or not be addressed by their correct name or the correct pronouns. Stand up for them. We need people to do that.

SCHROEDER: I also just wanted to say, thank you. It says something about the organization that's not only willing to put up pins with pronouns on them, but also have a discussion about it.

BUCHAK: A very necessary conversation, too. I greatly appreciate that. You know you're a little jaded from previous places. It's nice to know that it's just a past experience. It's a bad relationship that I had with an employer before. It's OK now. We can move forward.

NARRATOR: A culture of inclusivity starts with you. Whether you are part of a certain community or not, your words, actions and behaviors are part of the experiences that shape our culture. Think about ways you can support those around you and put them into action.

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